The Jost - Conrad - Charles Mystery
SOLVED: Charles was Jost's son
Maybe solved? Jost and Conrad are Simon's descendants
Three of the appendices from The Dreisbach Book are combined on this one page, because there is strong evidence that the three individuals are related.
First, a recap of what we knew in 1998 when our book went to press:
Appendix F
Jost Driesbach
Parents unknown
b. Pennsylvania 1773
d. Luzerne County, PA 1858
Jost Driesbach of Luzerne County, Pennsylvania (buried in an abandoned cemetery along the Susquehanna River) - p. 30:
There were many Josts and Yosts in the early generations of Dreisbachs in Pennsylvania. The name has thus far been found only among the descendants of Simon Dreisbach; it was not used within the Martin line. Thus, it is probable that the Jost Driesbach who was born in 1773 of unidentified parents in an unidentified place belongs to the Simon line. Jost and his wife Mary lie buried in an abandoned and neglected family cemetery along the North Branch of the Susquehanna River near Harding in Exeter township, Luzerne County, Pennsylvania. Many of the stones are broken and illegible, and the last burials are from the 1880's. This cemetery has been called the 'Driesbaugh' cemetery. However, the known descendants of this Jost generally spelled their name 'Driesbach', and a few have used 'Dreisbach.'
The tombstone of progenitor Jost shows that he lived from Nov. 30, 1773 to April 26, 1858. His wife's dates are more difficult to read. Of their sons John, Jonas, Aaron, and Charles, Jonas is the only one whose descendants are known, at least in part. Other links to Dreisbachs, Driesbachs and Driesbaughs in the Wilkes-Barre and Scranton and other parts of north-eastern Pennsylvania have not yet come to light.
Appendix H
Conrad Dreisbach
Lawyer, parents unknown
b. Pennsylvania 1784
d. Gilbert, Monroe Co, 1863
Conrad Dreisbach of Monroe County, Pa (the lawyer with no known roots) - pp. 30-31
To date no parents have been found for Conrad Dreisbach (26 April 1784 - 9 January 1863) who is buried in the Salem Church cemetery, Gilbert, Pennsylvania. Gilbert is situated in Monroe County, in the southern part of the Pocono Mountains, and lies north and east of the area settled by Simon Dreisbach and his sons. It is presumed that Conrad was a member of the Simon line.
In the 1850 census Conrad Dreisbach was listed as a lawyer[Note: see correction below, should have been read sawyer-- CEB]. His wife, Christina Serfass, granddaughter of immigrant Philip Servas, was born in 1786 in what is now Monroe County, and is buried in Salem Cemetery with her husband. It is possible that Conrad grew up in the Weissport/Pohopoco area of neighboring Carbon County, but efforts to connect him with one of Simon Dreisbach's descendants have not been successful.
Three of Conrad and Christina's children married members of the Shupp (Schupp) family. Their descendants are presented in the three-volume publication, Early German American Schupp/Shupp/Shup families and their Descendants from the 1600's to the Present by Atwood James Shupp and Katherine F. Marsden Shupp (1995). Their eldest daughter Mary (Maria) married George Hawk and their descendants are listed in the book Genealogy of Conrad and Elisabeth (Borger) Hawk 1774-1990 by Atwood James Shupp, published by Gateway Press, Baltimore, Maryland, 1990. As for son John C. Dreisbach, he had a daughter, Christiana (born circa 1834) who married another Dreisbach, John (born 23 January 1830 in Pennsylvania). At least two of Christiana Dreisbach's sisters moved to Marion County, Illinois, where their Barrall descendants and related families have been living for generations.
Appendix K
Charles Dreisbach
Parents unknown, lived in Ohio
b. before 1825
d. Akron Ohio?
Only his descendancy chart is given in The Dreisbach Book (first two generations given here):
Descendants of Charles DREISBACH
1 Charles DREISBACH b: Bef. 1825 Summit Co., OH (Akron ?) d: Summit Co., OH (Akron ?)
.. +Elizabeth ?
.... 2 George DREISBACH b: 1843 Summit Co., OH (Akron ?) d: 28 Feb 1925 Bur. Akron, OH
........ +Martha A RABER b: 1854 d: 19 Apr 1918
.... 2 William DREISBACH b: Summit Co., OH (Akron ?)
........ +Serilla ?
.... 2 John DREISBACH b: Summit Co., OH (Akron ?) d: 23 Jun 1926
........ +Oray ? d: 20 Sep 1926
.... 2 Harvey DREISBACH b: Summit Co., OH (Akron ?)
Starting with this information and with the descendancy charts in TDB, we now examine the new information that has come to light since publication.
December 1, 1998
Dear Mr. Atteberry,
Father Charles has forwarded to me a copy of your Nov. 11 letter. There are a number of us who would be delighted if the Conrad and Jost (born 1773) lines could be connected. I was not aware of the story of a relationship between Frank of the Jost line and the Barralls of the Conrad line, and find that most significant. Moreover, that there was intermarriage with Hawks in both lines. However, I do not feel they have been definitely connected.
Your reading of Conrad's occupation as "sawyer" in the 1850 census does indeed make good sense. I had accepted the reading "lawyer" in good faith, though wondering how that had come about in what was a relatively backwoods area at the time. Dreisbachs of Pohopoco Creek (Big Creek) did have at least one sawmill, and for myself, I have used the working hypothesis that those who went to Gilbert in Monroe County probably moved eastward from the Lehigh Gap/Weissport/Big Creek area.
It is also news to me that there was a John Dreisbach living in Chestnut Hill twp in 1810. He does seem a likely candidate as father of Jost and Conrad. Do you have any theories as to where this John might have come from?
Past-President Bill Dreisbach has also been working on the Conrad and Jost 1773 lines. Earlier this year he sent me a list of baptisms performed in Salem Church, Gilbert twp. You may already be familiar with it, but I shall nevertheless write it out here for your information, as follows:
Name of Dreisbach child - date of christening - names of parents.
Allen 1808 2 Sep Johannes and Maria
[NOTE: I was unable to find this Allen in the records, the closest I came was the following:
Johannes DREISBACH and wf. Maricha Allwen b. 7-16-1826 bap. 12-24-1826 Henrich SERFASS and wf. Elisabeth --CEB]
Aaron 1809 7 May Jost and Magdalena (possibly the Jost born 1773?)
Karl 1810 3 Jun " " (possibly the Charles son of Jost 1773)
Johannes 1812 12 Apr Conrad and Elizabeth (in TDB)
Harriet 1818 13 Dec John and Maria
Lidia Ann 1821 19 Sep " "
Finnias 1824 31 Oct John and Maricha
Stephen 1830 25 Jan John and Maria
Christina 1833 7 Feb "
James 1833 21 Apr Jonas and Polly (very probably Jonas, son of Jost 1773)
Catharina 1840 6 Feb John and Mary
Maria 1840 25 Apr John and Maria
Mahlon 1840 25 Apr Charles and Sally
Lucinda 1853 1 May Feliz and Manna Got (sic!)
Andrew 1853 17 Jun Oliver and Christina
Salina 1854 6 Aug Frank and Sarah (Kuhns)
Hoping our combined efforts can help us arrive at more certainty,
Ardis Grosjean Dreisbach
4 July 2000
Dear Carrie:
I'm enclosing an updated line for Conrad Dreisbach, section H in the Dreisbach book. I have not added information from the book, but the information from Conrad's son, John C. Dreisbach, has been updated. Please note Conrad was not a lawyer, as given in the book. In the census records, he is shown as a sawyer. Someone messed up in reading the census.
Also, I'm sending the line of Jost Dreisbach, section F in the book. Most of my information is about the descendants of Frank Dreisbach who married Sarah Kintz, shown on the bottom of page 291.
I believe that Conrad and Jost were brothers and the sons of John Dreisbach. In the 1810 census of Northampton Co, PA (Chestnut Hill) there is:
John Dreisbach, age +45
Jost and Conrad, age 26-45 (Jost was 36 and Conrad was 26)
In 1820, Chestnut Hill:
Conrad, age 26-45 (36)
Josts, Esq., age +45 (46)
John, age 16-26 (son of Jost)
Both Conrad and Jost named their first son, John. (Conrad's only son.)
In addition to this, my grandmother said that she thought that Mary Dreisbach and Frank Dreisbach were brother and sister, or cousins (both came to Marion Co, IL). I have proven that they were not brother and sister or first cousins. But, if Conrad and Jost were brothers, Charles F. and John C. were cousins, Frank and Mary would have been second cousins. So-- I have no proof, but I really believe this is correct.
Sincerely,
Wayne Atteberry
The updated descendancy information that Wayne included with this letter included the following family group:
Charles F. Dreisbach (s/o Jost). Born, 8 Mar 1810, in Chestnut Hill, Northampton Co., Pa.
He married first, Catherine.
Children:
1. Francis (Frank) Dreisbach
He married second, Sarah.
Children:
2. Malon Dreisbach, born 11 Jan 1840, in Chestnut Hill
[Note that he was baptized at Salem Church in Gilbert]
3. Henry Dreisbach, born c.1842 in PA
4. George Dreisbach, born c. 1844 in PA
5. William Dreisbach, born c. 1845 in PA
6. Jane Dreisbach, born c. 1847 in PA
7. John Dreisbach, born c. 1849 in PA
8. Amanda Dreisbach, born c. 1851 in PA
9. Rachael Dreisbach, born d. 1852 in PA
10. Julia Dreisbach, born c. 1854 in PA
11. Jacob Dreisbach, born c. 1855 in PA
12. Thomas Dreisbach, born c. 1856 in PA
13. Sarah Dreisbach, born c. 1857 in PA
14. Clarissa Dreisbach, born c. 1859 in PA
Wayne Atteberry had nothing further on this family. But Ann Wohlhueter, another Dreisbach researcher, found this same Charles in Summit County, Ohio-- after scouring the census records for evidence about our mysterious Charles:
Taken together, I believe that these records tie the Charles who had his son Mahlon baptized in Gilbert to the Charles who was living in Summit County OH.
Were Jost and Conrad brothers? If so, who was their father?
Examining the records:
1. In the earliest baptismal records of Salem Church, we find an intriguing sponsorship entry:
Johannes DREISBACH and wf. Catharina were sponsors for Conrad SERFASS, s/o Philp SERFASS and wf. Eva, b. ---- bap. 3-13 [1809]
Was Catharina the name of the wife of the old John? Was there a third son named John? If so, to where did he disappear? He is not mentioned again in the records. It seems unlikely that this is Jost's son John, who married a Maria before 1815.
2. Driesbach Cemetery records Exeter twp, Luzerne Co, PA:"Maria wife of John Driesbach D. Dec. 7, 1786 (Year?)" This is the cemetery where many of Jost's descendants are buried. Possibly John's first wife.
3. In 1938, Ella Kintz, a descendant of Conrad, applied and was accepted into the Daughters of the American Revolution (DAR #113090) through John George Dreisbach, b. 1 Feb 1735 d. 27 August 1796, m. Anna Elizabeth Schmielin b. 25 July 1742 d. 14 Dec 1821 m. 1763, whose children were listed as John Yost 1764 m. Margaret Solt, Henry, Peter, Elizabeth m. Peter Solt, and Conrad. She claimed that her Ancestor "was in service with the Associators and Militia under the leadership of Captain William Kroncier. He was also a member of the Drum and Fife Corps." [PA Archives, 3rd series, Vol. 19 p. 696; Vol. 24, p. 215; and 5th Series Vol. 8, p. 310]
Wayne Atteberry has effectively debunked this claim. Ella's source for "John George"'s marriage record was the marriage of John George Drescher & Anna Elizabeth Schmidlin on 10 Nov 1753 at the First German Reformed Church of Philadelphia. He notes in a letter dated 4 August 2001:
"This is quite a stretch to say that John George Drescher is the same as George William Dreisbach. Also, note that she used the same dates as the ones for John Dreisbach and his wife Elizabeth Waldman, except that she has George's death date as Aug. 27, 1796-- John's is Sep. 27, 1796... My theory is this: She could have known that Conrad had a brother named Jost and that their father was George. (Conrad was her great-grandfather). Then when she found the marriage record, she decided that this was really George Dreisbach and so his name was John George. Then when she found the burial records for John and Elizabeth, she thought this was her John George and Anna Elizabeth. I can't see how the DAR accepted this, but they did."
The John to whom Wayne is referring did actually serve in the American Revolution and there are multiple descendants who have proven through him (Ella Kintz, by the way, the sole DAR member proving through her phantom "John George".) Here is John's family:
1 John DREISBACH 1734/35 - 1796
.. +Elizabeth WALDMAN 1742 - 1821
...... 2 John Adam DREISBACH 1759 - 1760
...... 2 Henry DRIESBACH 1762 - 1841
.......... +Maria Catherine APP 1763 - 1837
...... 2 Jost DREISBACH 1764 - 1854
.......... +Anna Margaretha SOLT 1764 - 1846
...... 2 Catharina DREISBACH 1767 - 1773
...... 2 Peter DREISBACH 1768 - 1851
.......... +Anna BIER 1769 - 1854
...... 2 Johannes DREISBACH 1771 - 1809
...... 2 Susanna DREISBACH 1774 - March
.......... +Paul SOLT 1768 - 1833
...... 2 John George DREISBACH 1778 - 1789
...... 2 John Conrad DREISBACH 1781 - 1846
.......... +Elizabeth FENSTERMACHER 1792 - 1878
Clearly, Ella Kintz was confused. Perhaps at some point we can let the DAR know that they have a non-existent Dreisbach in their roles!
Simon did have a son named George William, and he is undoubtedly the George who was confusing Ella Kintz. To see where he probably enters in, read on.
Analyzing the evidence:
As for Jost and Conrad being brothers, proof is still lacking, but circumstantial evidence is strong.
Both attended Salem Lutheran & Reformed Church in Chestnuthill twp, Monroe Co, at the same time.
Jost's grandson Stephen (1830) married Conrad's granddaughter Christiana (c1834)
Both named their first son John
The Johannes/John who attended Salem Church appears to be of the right age to be their father
Jost's great-grandchild Andrew is buried very close to Conrad in the Salem Church cemetery
Conrad and Jost are listed on many of the same land records
Conrad's descendants and Josts descendants both lived in the same township in Luzerne county in the mid-1800s
Counterarguments to this theory:
Jost has no sons or grandsons named Conrad
Conrad has no sons or grandsons named Jost
Jost's one daughter was a Catherine; Conrad did not name any of his 5 daughters Catherine
Jost and Conrad had other people sponsor their childrens' baptisms, but did not sponsor each others children
Possible parents for Jost based on known Dreisbachs:
1. John Jost, s/o Jost s/o Simon Sr. Born 26 Oct 1757, m. Catherine, no more known
2. Yost s/o Adam s/o Simon Sr. Born 2 Aug 1754, d. 2 Oct 1808, buried Dryland, no wife (unlikely)
3. Simon Jr s/o Simon Sr. Born Jan 1729, d. Northampton, wife died 8 Jul 1773 (in childbirth?)
4. John s/o Simon Sr. born Feb 1734, d. 27 Sept 1796 Northampton, m. Elizabeth d. 1821. Unlikely because he had a child Jost who lived.
5. John s/o George William s/o Simon Sr. This is a tenuous connection at best, but is the one strongly favored at this time.
If we assume that Conrad 1784 is Jost's brother, then we must eliminate #3 and #4 as possibilities altogether. This further points to John Jost 1757 as a possible father. Note the John (but usually men went by their second name, not the first part of the name, it would be unusual for him to call himself John instead of Jost, unless there was a good reason for it.)
At this point, we postulate the following ancestry for Jost and Conrad:
George William DREISBACH (son of Simon Sr.)
b: Bef. Jun 14, 1733 in Oberndorf, Wittgenstein
Baptism: Jun 14, 1733 Oberndorf, Wittgenstein
.. +Sophia ? m: Abt. 1758 in PA
...... 2 Jost DREISBACH b: Nov 14, 1758
...... 2 John? DREISBACH b: Bef. 1760 in prob PA
d: Bet. 1810 - 1820 in prob Chestnut Hill twp, Monroe Co, PA
.......... +Maria ? d: Dec 07, 1786 in Harding, Exeter twp, Luzerne Co, PA
............... 3 Jost DRIESBACH
b: Nov 30, 1773 in PA
d: Apr 26, 1858 in Luzerne Co, PA
Burial: 1858 Driesbaugh/Driesbach Cemetery, Harding, Exeter Twp., Luzerne Co., PA
................... +Mary Margaretha HAWK
b: Abt. Jun 1774
m: Bef. 1797 in PA
d: Sep 02, 1849 in Luzerne Co, PA Burial:
1849 Driesbaugh/Driesbach Cemetery, Harding, Exeter Twp. , Luzerne Co., PA
............... 3 Conrad DREISBACH
b: Apr 26, 1784
Residence: 1860 Chestnuthill twp, Monroe Co, PA
d: Jan 09, 1863 in Gilbert, Monroe Co, PA
Burial: 1863 Salem Church Cemetery, Gilbert, Monroe Co, PA
................... +Christina Elizabeth SERFASS
b: Aug 12, 1786 in Polk Twp, Monroe Co, PA
m: Bet. 1802 - 1804 in Gilbert, Monroe Co, PA
d: Sep 22, 1872 in Gilbert, Monroe Co, PA Burial: Salem Church Cemetery, Gilbert, Monroe Co, PA
...... *2nd Wife of John? DREISBACH:
.......... +Catherine ? m: Aft. 1786 d: Bef. 1808 in prob Chestnut Hill twp, Monroe Co, PA
This George William is a shadowy figure, barely appearing in the records we've uncovered so far. Any and all help on this particular line is very welcome!